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okay I get
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welcome to the Sputnik with me sir sir
wonger you know there's an awful lot of
nonsense written on the internet about
how the world is run by lizards I ask
you I've just been appointed the head of
the World Bank and I'm shortly also to
become the Secretary General of NATO and
the head of the EU commission so you can
see what a lot of nonsense this lizard
stuff really is can't
you sorry mate lizards may or may not
rule the world but they don't present
Sputnik my name is Neil Clark and I'm
not a lizard and I am presenting Sputnik
for my good friends George and
gatrie this week it gives me great
pleasure to introduce a very special
guest to the program he's the man who
for over 50 years has been defying The
Establishment Gatekeepers to tell us the
truth about what's really going on in
the world he's reported from War zones
from Vietnam to Iraq and produced
several award-winning films the latest
being the coming war on China he's my
journalistic hero and I expect he's
yours too he is Mr John Pilger John a
very warm welcome on thank you so much
for coming on John where should we start
should we start talking about the events
of the UK general election you you
started on Fleet Street didn't you in '
62 I did have you seen anything as
extraordinary as what happened last week
no I suppose um I
remember Harold Wilson coming to power
but that was kind of expected you know
they it was ready 13 years of Tory rule
Miss rule as they called it but uh this
Jeremy
Corbin
achievement not quite a win but
certainly a
Triumph uh is wonderful on so many
levels because it it has has proven all
the the the forces that range against
the most moderate the most modest
opposition to extreme policies in this
country it has proved that uh they they
they're wrong when you think of all
those thousands of students that
registered at the last minute and the
numbers that have joined the labor party
and since joined the labor party it's
beyond the labor party in a sense it's a
rebellion and just in in the same way
though not exactly the same of course
the brexit vote was a
rebellion and and not painted as it has
been since then but this was uh a full
throated raar there's no question about
that uh and it will be very interesting
to see what happens this year with
another election I understand Jeremy
Corbin thinks there will be an election
in September or October I read that he
told uh somebody on his allotment that
was what he thought I don't know I would
guess and I'm not a futurist and I
hesitate but I would guess anyway that
he would win then that's extraordinary
yeah and I think one angle of this is
the way there was this people defying
the What I Call The Gatekeepers you know
the establishment Gatekeepers who told
us ad nauseum you know don't vote for
this man he's a pariah he's a terrorist
sympathizer you name it he was it and
yet 40% of the voters still went out
there and B two fingers up that's all so
absurd and you know this is a
sophisticated Society it was so absurd
calling Jeremy Corbin giving him that
kind of level of abuse um you know so
backfired you're saying really it's back
backfired I fig I actually think it's
the end of the power of the the tabloids
that have crowed that they actually Were
King makers well R murd actually said
didn't he boasted that yes no prime
minister that he didn't support had been
elected yes I think 74 74 I I'm I'm
pretty sure that's over it's so
heartening that they could really say
anything about Jeremy Corbin and they
almost did and he he his supporters
would ignore it a lot has to do with the
whole change in in particularly in young
people's media habits as it were their
uh their social media creatures now uh
most of them
newspapers have made themselves in many
respects defunct they're not actually
people newspapers as such people
actually quite like they like the
visceral idea of the newspaper it it's
like books it appeals right across the
generations but
newspapers playing this extraordinary
propaganda card have really destroyed
their own
power uh at election time in this
country it's it's quite wondrous to
behold but they become views papers
haven't they really compared to when you
first started in the 60s we had the
comment page didn't we and then but the
rest of the paper was object more or
less pretty objective news you've gone
the other way around now isn't it and
it's it's just sort of opinion and news
a views rather dominate views dominate
that's uh the reporter is not as cele
the great reporter is not as celebrated
as the great windbag yes right uh and
what we have is a whole if you take the
guardian a whole uh stable of precocious
windbags great reporting is quite
different great reporting
that draws
conclusions that seeks the truth through
evidence yeah uh and being the voice
from the bottom not from the top being
an agent of people not an agent of power
that kind of idea of Journalism that is
that it exists in honorable exceptions
in the so-call mainstream media but
that's really what we're missing and
that's why they got it so wrong you
wrote a wonderful piece which I love in
2014 called The Return of George Orwell
let me just quote from this you said
that when I began a career in Britain's
Fleet Street in the 1960s it was
acceptable to critique Western power as
a rapacious force and you quoted of
course the great James Cameron the
reporter who reported on the war in
Korea and the American bombing of North
Vietnam and you said that contrast today
that dissent in politics as in
journalism and the Arts it seems that
descent once tolerated in the mainstream
has regressed to a dissidence a
metaphoric underground in the way that
basically you could there was more space
to critique Western power in the 60s and
70s and there is now yes there were
always Gatekeepers and the Press was
always conservative and the Press always
represented vested
interests uh but Beaver Brook's standard
could employ the likes of James
Cameron uh and my own career on the
mirror uh which was solidly on the right
of the labor party most of the time
right um I think said something about
that it's it's it it it
pushed desting
journalism which is one definition of
real journalism because why have
journalism at all if it is not going to
descent from the received wisdom if it's
not going to find out if it's not going
to push down facades and and and and
lift rocks and find out that's
journalism it doesn't have to be align
with any political party but it it it
does have to be a dissenter so when you
destroy that whole notion of Journalism
as a dissenter and make the the media
simply a a fog horn right yeah uh for
whatever establishment receive wisdom
yeah is uh is out there uh as it largely
has become it's divided into factions of
course you have the the traditional Tory
right in the in the telegraph you have
the Murdoch right in the times you have
the liberal right in the guardian and so
on um but it's not that's not just that
that is not journalism as such it's it's
a it's a form of of um it's a form of
propaganda as we saw in this election
campaign and they all agreed don't they
on on big issues a couple of issues I
think they all agree on is Russia the
demonization of Russia and also the
demonization of Julian Assange yeah well
the I mean the creation of a second cold
war is a Wonder to
behold it is such a
nonsense every bit about it is nonsense
in the United States not bad here uh uh
in the the United States there's a kind
of a
steria now um and this this
Congressional committee that is hearing
the likes of uh James Comey the former
head of America's political police the
FBI as an objective witness this is the
FBI which was run by Jed G Hoover all
that time he tried to M everyone on
Earth the it it the there is there is
there is no evidence none whatsoever
even the idea that Russia has interfered
in the election how did it change the
election what ballots were changed how
did it get into those boxes what states
didn't vote um for uh for the candidate
that should have won uh because of
Russian interference the whole thing is
nonsense and yet the you have newspapers
so-called newspapers of record like the
New York Times saying in effect the
Russians are coming uh KY himself said
uh which was reported widely across the
US the last couple of days they're
coming to get America I think I quote
him exactly I mean in a soall
Information Age which really is not so
much an information age as a media age
to have this this tsunami of propaganda
about Russia and about the Russian
president the Distortion of facts the
invasions that don't
happen um you know you are we living in
a kind of it's a sort of almost a
virtual fantasy world in a sense if you
rely on the So-Cal mainstream media and
I don't like that term because it's it's
really an extreme propaganda actually
mainstream suggests for me the kind of
people who voted for Jeremy Corbin but
yesing isn't it the real will and it's a
term that that we should mentally put in
inverted commas all the time um but it's
it's
uh it's some it's something I think most
people know now are really understanding
I I think the media is the most popular
subject now right across the country
whenever I excuse me do public meetings
or whatever what they want to talk about
is the media and propaganda and I think
that the the the I think it's out and
this this election in which those and
which the male devoted 13 pages of
denigration of Jeremy Corbin a few days
before the election were
ignored uh the sun was ignored and all
the rest of the propaganda was ignored I
think people are on to it so hopefully
things have changed and things will will
continue to change yes John it's been an
absolute pleasure to have you on the
spot you got to come on again soon and
we can continue this discussion very
welcome thank you after the break we get
serious about Syria stay tuned
welcome back to Sputnik with me Neil
Clark standing in for Georg and gaty
this week the United Nations said that
the US Le Coalition air strikes on raaka
in Syria had led to a staggering loss of
civilian life the US has also admitted
to using white phosphorus a chemical
weapon but the media reaction in the
west has been muted to say the least
it's all a far cry from the headlines
when Syrian forces with Russian support
were trying to liberate Aleppo in
December then the talk was of a h horse
taking place joining me now to discuss
these glaring double standards is the
journalist Vanessa Bey who has visited
and reported from Syria several times
during the current conflict Vanessa a
very warm welcome on board the Sputnik
you've been in Syria several times
haven't you during the conflict and in
December when the uh liberation of
Aleppo was taking place you were there
weren't you and the headlines here at
the time were that this was a holocaust
this was a genocide we we had to
intervene to stop this what was the
reality on the ground it was
extraordinary it was an extraordinary
time because being on the ground there
um both in August during the heat of
some of the battles um to the south of
the city of Aleppo um by the Syrian Army
to regain ground that had been taken by
the various extremist and militant
factions and then basically being in EAS
leppo during the liberation of the
various districts of
eppo um watching events unfold on the
ground speaking to people as they
emerged from what was effectively a
5year
occupation um by nusra front l so
alqaeda LED and dominated extremist
factions funded of course by our
governments and the Gulf States and
equipped by turkey etc etc um and then
to be witnessing events on the ground to
be witnessing the
celebrations of the people at their
Liberation um to be seeing um the care
that the Syrian Arab Army and uh its
Russian allies were taking to provide
the humanitarian corridors to evacuate
civilians from districts prior to going
in and basically cleansing them of the
various terrorist factions um and then
to hear this almost sort of parallel
Dimension going on outside of
Syria Amplified by our media by the UN
by NATO aligned Nos and as you said by
the government in Britain I mean it was
sort of it was quite extraordinary there
was one particular story that broke
while I was there
um which was the story of um the Syrian
women in a particular District about to
commit mass suicide because the Syrian
Arab Army were going to rape them or
that the Syrian Arab Army were attacking
their own civilians one I was there and
I was on the ground and and and there
was absolutely no evidence of this there
was sheer Jubilation from um the people
of Syria to be liberated from this
terrorist occupation but also um
something that people just don't seem to
understand understand is that the Syrian
Arab Army is the Syrian people it comes
from the Syrian
families exactly and many of them were
coming back to their homes in East
Aleppo so this was one of the most
obscene grotesque distortions of truth
that I've ever actually sort of been
able to witness firsthand I mean and
plus you know you we're talking here um
a Muslim Society to even suggest that
women in this society would one Mass
commit suicide shows a clear lack of
understanding of that Society itself so
I mean it yeah it was extraordinary it
was sort of um completely Twilight Zone
to be honest and now we got Rapa haven't
we with the UN coming out talking about
staggering loss of civilian life it's
incredible to see the lack of media
coverage about this and contrast it with
alipo when we was headlines it was the
headlines of the news this one is tucked
away on page 16 isn't it literally I
mean when you have um a nation and its
Army and its state defending itself
against an illegal intervention of proxy
terrorist armies and brigades um
committing atrocities against human
beings inside Syria against civilians
not against uh the regime or against the
Army but not against military uh targets
but actually almost universally against
civilians purely because collectively
they've they've resisted this
intervention so it's Collective
punishment of the civilian population
which is ignored by the media um but
when you have uh an army that is
defending its country that is
recapturing its Homeland from these
these terrorist proxies um it's
described as you quite rightly said as
as gica or as Dresden or as a holocaust
or as a Waring isn't it you know and and
the media you know and this is where it
where it's criminal and we were just
talking about it and green room they
leave no space for any political or
diplomatic dialogue they amplify it to
such an extent that there is no recourse
except military action military
intervention it's criminal but then you
see the US Coalition dropping good bombs
you know on MOS yeah humanitarian you
know totally targeted bombs on on mosul
and of course then civilians suddenly
are described as collateral damage
whereas the US Coalition in mosul have
not provided any humanitarian corridors
they've not provided any humanitarian
assistance and equally in raqqa we're
seeing the use of chemical weapons uh
white phosphorus but it's very important
to mention that the US is also admitted
to using depleted uranium throughout
Syria as it has in every nation uh that
has been a pre nation that it's attacked
Yugoslavia for example yeah exactly you
know we we've just had a report come out
recently in the last couple of days but
they've used de depleted uranium they've
aded to it I have testimony from Syrian
arami soldiers on the ground of dreadful
effects of deated uranium bullets and
grenades and missiles um and here we
have the use of white phosphorus in Raa
against a civilian population why
because it's effectively aiding their
proxy on the ground uh the SDF which
consists of course of of the Kurdish uh
militants and I have to make a very
important Point here that many Kurds in
Syria support the Syrian state
support the Syrian Army and and they
don't want the Democratic Federation of
Kurdistan um but these Kurdish militants
that are being aided and abetted by the
US Coalition and effectively what we're
seeing is an ethnic cleansing of raqa we
have to be very clear of this over 50%
of the population has been driven out
over the last few months but of course
now in a more um deliberate and
intensified way by the US Coalition
bombing campaign not only white
phosphorus but intense bombing campaign
and you know we're hearing reports of
300 being killed but we know how the UN
manipulates figures to serve various
geopolitical purposes so we can assume
that those figures are conservative
isn't it fair to say that the whole way
the Syrian conflict has been portrayed
in much of the western media has been
totally false is that going to yeah
because you know it's been portrayed as
a wicked evil dictator who's Waging War
against his own people he has no support
in the country he's just trying to cling
on to power and we've got moderate
Rebels and all the yeah there might be a
few nasty overthe toop characters but
they're moderate Rebels I know what
David remember David Cameron speech when
he said how many there were thousands of
70,000 70,000 moderate Rebels came from
Charles list of course you know yeah
quite so isn't it the argument for
saying that this the way the whole
conflict has been presented has been
false and that I don't think I've ever
perhaps
because um you know Syria is such a
unified secular State and basically 80%
of population if not more during during
this period of of intervention support
the Syrian State and the Syrian Army I
mean let's be very clear there's still
opposition members and there are still
opposition on the ground in Syria that
do not necessarily approve of the
government but they're supporting the
government in its resistance against
imperialism neocolonialism and an
attempt to to both carve up Syria
destabilize Syria and plunder Syria as
they've done in in Libya and Iraq of
course and yeah I mean Aleppo to me
exemplified exactly what I call the 8020
rule you know 80% of the population in
West Alpa 1.5 million the majority were
ignored by our media 80% of the
population in Syria living inside Syrian
government held areas are ignored the
20% that are living unfortunately for
them in Terrorist occupied areas let's
forget the moderate Rebel M because I
think that has pretty much been
eradicated you know
conclusively um but that 20% living in
Terrorist hold areas are being used as
human Shields they're being deprived of
humanitarian and Medical Aid they're
being starved they're being executed
they're being imprisoned they're being
raped they're being um you know tortured
um and so it's it's it's it's an
incredible situation where in reality
what our media is is basing its
narrative upon are it sources on the
ground very few of them are on the
ground inside Syria and they're basing
their narrative upon sources that are
clearly and undeniably Affiliated to the
extremist factions as in East Aleppo
well let's talk about these white
helmets there because I know you've done
a lot of research and work on this they
were build up as this wonderful group
they were nominated for Nobel Peace
prizes Etc and they are you know
overwhelmingly presented as wonderful
humanitarians in Syria helping people
but your you're version is rather
different yeah I mean I know we have
very limited time so I'll try and
condense it um look basically um they're
a propaganda Shadow State construct
created primarily and funded primarily
by the UK through the conflict stability
and Security fund there's a lot of
funding for the UK I was really over 65
million 65 million and that's without
and and Amber rad is very sort of uh
close close mouthed on this it's it's
the secret conflict stability and
Security fund let's say but what I would
like to emphasizes that on my latest
trip to Aleppo I had the opportunity to
go into the abandoned white helmet
centers when they had fled not with the
civilians but with nusra front to idlib
they're now in idlib with the various
extremist factions and what we found was
a very clear um alignment between n
front and the white helmets not only did
they share the same buildings in many of
the centers um they shared the same
practices people civilians told us on
almost a daily basis that uh the white
helmets were working alongside nusra
front they were nusra front civil
defense they did not help civilians they
stole from the civilians but they also
participated in various imprisonments
and executions of those civilians we've
seen a recent uh film come out from Dada
in the south of Syria where they have
effectively yet again mopped up after
after an extra additional execution
carried out by the terrorist factions
there yeah um and they were cheering
this execution so they cannot be deemed
as as
humanitarian um basically it's a
humanitarian construct that creates
camouflage um and protection for the
terrorist atrocities and both factions
are being funded by our governments
thank you so much Vanessa for coming on
the sputnic and and telling us what's
really going on in Syria thank you well
I'm afraid that's all we got time for
this week on the Sputnik George and Gat
will be back next time but I'd like to
thank everyone for watching these last
few weeks and the great guests we've had
on the program too you know what it's
been marvelous
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